camp2015-hackbases HACKBASES @ Chaos Communication Camp (CCC) 2015
Impromptu pad

_____________________ hackbases pre-camp


* + trustroots + hitchwiki picnic @ Tuesday 11th, Berlin, Krumme Lanke 3pm and onwards 

-_____________________ hackbases @ camp
-People here:
- (CHT)
-    lorenz (CHT)
-    sva (hillhacks / hackerbeach)
-    gamambel (tor, rff)
-    po
-    lix (@feklee)
-    clement@French Embassy
-    * Indian/hillhackers will be docked on at moose village
-    * david without tent whatever micronomad / a lot at idiopolis and moose
-    * gamambel has his own small hackbase in the caravan area :) <-- how to meet you?
-Cool villages:
-    * Idiopolis incl. awesome led-light fireplace + geodesic dome
-    * Moose
-    * Scottish Embassy
-    * ...
-    * org a session ->
-    * org a lightning talk ->


    8pm Aug 15 (Saturday) @ Idiopolis Geodesic Dome (white, next to CCC Rocket)
    ??? Aug 16 (Sunday): Maybe one more session <-- ? <-- Didn't happen


Events related to #hackbases (curated by David):

    - - - - - -  Aug 13 Thu -> right now @Vesna's place, Lake way

    - - - - - -  Aug 14 Fri 14 10am 14 1pm
    LIGHTNING TALKS 16:00 - 18:15 @
    14 6:30pm Basics of hydroponics @ S-3 7-8pm @ Quadrature
    14 9:15pm Terraforming planet Earth  @ Simulacron 3

    - - - - - -  Aug 15 Sat
    hackerspace design patterns v2.0 10:30am @ Tent A @ 1-3pm La Quadrature du Camp
    LIGHTNING TALKS 16:00 - 18:15 @
    includes @mstefanow talk about "" project
    20:00 General hackbases discussion forum @ Idiopolis geodesic dome:
        david :
    24:00 Hillhackers talk by sva <-- at END OF DAY

    - - - - - -  Aug 16 Sun
    LIGHTNING TALKS 16:00 - 18:15 @ :
        vesna/becha @ VESNA TALK 16:20 El Guitars @ 17:15 Hacker Fleet 18:30 @ 19:00 19:00 21:00

    - - - - - -  Aug 17 Mon Infrastructure review 4pm @ Simulacron 3

    - - - - - -  TBA <-- Was anybody at any of these ones? TBA TBA <-- #workflow <-- TBA TBA @ Noisy Sq TBA

    - - - - - -  RND 15 8pm

############### NOTES
############### Hackbases Meetup
############### August 15th 8pm
############### at Idiopolis Geodesic Dome

=== Additionnal notes by Clement =================

- two crucial points: being able to live there, owning the land/long term stability
- We need to redefine/clarify goals, and then PR this shit, so that people can join up/support.
- federation/group of hackbases that can share tools/experience... but separate communities according to location/people wanting to be together
- which tools/infrastructure would be useful for this federation, to help projects emerge? => statistics, legal info, meetup forum (existing and wanabees), PR structure (toward the external world, to get work/negociate stuff in or out, bigger means stronger), equipment like trucks, etc

- take some land/infrastructure out of the purely capitalistic world, to achieve a better lifestyle/quality of life
- make those who benefit from this help taking more stuff out/making the infrastructure getting better => create a virtuous circle

information compiling
=> patterns/processes (eg hackerspace patterns 3.0, how to solve this and that issue) and tools (eg equipment to get drinkable water, equipment for electricity, etc)
=> List of existing similar initiatives, eg ecovillages, hippie/artistic communities, and vinay gupta wiki, opensource ecology toolkit, initiatives to take land out of the property system, etc

Financing/legal stuff
How do you get started ? eg who pays initially / what is the cost structure for invest ?
Who actually owns the land ? How to protect the long term efforts and things invested in the structure ?

- abandonned (or almost) infrastructure/land/old buildings. In the countryside of many many countries, this exists.
- freelancing jobs/specialised activities that can be done in such a particular environment
- further mapping of existing info/experiences
- list critical required tools/infrastructures
- list potential land/bases to experiment further and get started (eg other than CHT)

Electrolab hackbase
- is a mid term/long term project, eg 6-12 or even later (bc buildup of current lab)
- main goal: have additionnal storage space for trucks, stuff. but still to be defined more precisely
- secondary goal: have some space to experiment living there and org some longer events (eg weeklong, monthlong, etc).

Current issues: focus of all energy & money is on build up of the current lab in Nanterre, France. Not much energy to look into hackbase. Goals/interactions between the main lab & hackbase still not clearly defined.
Strenghts: very tight community, lots of equipments/prototyping tools, huge network of people (even outside hacking communities), active members have kind of a lot of money (engineering jobs, no kids, no fancy lifestyle)

Open questions:
    - how big of a space do we need?
    - what kind of infrastructure/feature is required? nice to have? unnecessary? unwanted?
    - which location makes more sense ? (criteria: not too far away from Paris. One option: somewhere in burgundy, france...)
    - which legal structure ? independant, or dependant from the Electrolab structure?
    - who will be included in the hackbase (eg: Electrolab only/mostly, or joint effort) ?
    - how to finance the initial invest + recurring/utilities costs?
    - which activities shall be done in this environment ?
    - what is the org/decision making process ? what is the team ?
Different approaches:
    A/ the land/building is owned directly by the Electrolab structure, and handled as an additionnal space
    => probably a bad idea, let's not put everyting in the same structure
    B/ a new, dedicated structure is created to handle/operate that new land/building
    => good bc long term is better. pain in the ass bc a lot of work. cannot be done simultaneously with lab v2 (eg current space).
    C/ few people (like, admins from the lab) just buy land for themselves together, and somehow this benefits the lab, too (storage space, week event, etc).
    => easier to organize. bad bc it is not for the lab but for those few people actually investing
    => two versions: first is having a small, close group (less than 5 parties). Smaller land/thing, easier to organize/do. Less interest from the lab perspective. Second is much more people (15? even more? also moral entities?), much bigger land/space (even a village in some places). Anyhow, this is very similar to option B...

=== Live-Notes by David =================

((( 1. presentation round )))

    * hackbases basics
    * CHT basics + season 4 status

    * Amsterdam base
    * Plans in Lika for Summer 2016:
        * complex legal situation of space
        * infrastructure overview:
            yes = energy, water
            no = net

    was at CHT

Lenart / CHT / HH:
    found CHT, helping out

    fests explaining hackbases

Buzz / nurdspace:
    hackerspace founder
    had a squatted basement, was awesome as focused tool
    live/work boundaries dilute

Andrej / HH:
    how to reach consensus in community decision-making, with experimental-design / tech, to give it objectivity

Mark (realitygaps) / Amsterdam:
    hackspaces + hitch networks
    "open houses, lots were quite hacky"
    building communities with non-rule based orientation, people just looking after each other

Rupi(?) / Linz:
    I need a "personal space"
    dyne in Amsterdam, <-- mark knows, "an old nerd squat"

Clement / Electrolab (Paris):
    idea to start a hackbase around Electrolab project, ideas:
        1. own land, be independant, don't have to pay rent
        2. be able to live there permanently or temporary
        3. be able to just do neccesary work, "be lazy"
    Opening liberty for all of that.
        have hacker trucks stationed there,
        store equiptment, have a second area out of the city
        space for longer events (a month, a week)
        in 6-12 months it would make sense to either go forward (or scrap idea)
        * is cheaper to buy land
        * hackbase as an anchor = having a place to sit around
        * currently leaves in a house with 9 people

    community housing project in Amsterdam
    interested in bases

----------------------------------- debate

"Who is we?":
    * question of hacker-to-other-people-ratio:
        * Avoid having "only hackers"
        * but also, need some hackers!
    * how do you handle things when they go [?]

Two approaches:
    * community
    * infrastructure: ad-hoc groupings followings cookbooks <-- definitely CHT model

    * meta-level :
        value framework "so we can understand eachother"
        this ties to CHT's
    * through practice:
        develop artifacts
        iterative prototyping, informing the levels
    * hermeneutical problem (explaining / understanding all) of "one explanation"
    * ...

(we moved outside)

Matthias joins in:
    * plan: buy piece of land 1-2 years (stefek99: that's exactly what I'm trying to do - working in a job so I could afford the piece of land and my suggestion would be - if you want to have a hackbase - let's find a decent job in London / Paris / Berlin and save money)
    * check: can "small group of people i want to start this with" live there? (next X years)
    * after that: start food production

david: I hate design (for being a "craft)
mattijs + andrej agree

(talk about groupware) <-- <tg wiki 

cht : "sustainable failing" for 4 years already

PATTERN: "Engineers first / Controlled failure" <-- (not clearest)
Hackbases should play rough, be high energy.
Bases are able to fail because:
    * engineers have money
    * engineers tackle problems by trade
    * be able to experiment without risking "the society"
    * ... so you can fail without "going crazy"
    * fail so you can keep on failing
    * nobody else gets hurt "(safety next)"

"there's a huge amount of those [eco villages in southern europe]"
stefek99: PLENTY. We were at #cccamp15 - we all love technology - these people are in different social circles, they don't use technology that heavily. "huge amount" and "plenty" is a reasonable estimate.
-> Meh - not good enough. "Huge amount" and "plenty" are neither estimates, and definitely not reasonable.

PATTERN: "Solidarity"
(idea that some people pay less, some more, to be able to stay together)
    not sustainable in long run
    i agree
    it's not a perfect patter

PATTERN: "Better than baseline"
    "provide mores stability than the baseline"
    for primary needs
    "yeah pretty much goal, avoid being a fucking slave"

    technical unemployment is coming
    that can be a good thing ...
    ... or the worst thing ever

"hackerspace about bringing tech back to people"

    what's keeping people from living in a hackbase
    "why aren't YOU there right now?"
    upcoming :

    lifestyle description (FLOSL) ->

    see hackbases in general societal dynamics
    "part of a bigger project" of other types of initiatives

    people are getting older
    where are hackbases here?

    people might think hackbases are difficult to maintain (unstable situatoin, possibly unsustainable)
    but "current normal lifestyle is difficult to maintain!"
    (people working more + unstable jobs etc)

<david (idea/STUB)
PROJECT: Hacker spaces at scales (10^x sqm):
    1 = 5/15 m2 = personal workshop
    2 = 50/150 m2 = first-gen hackspaces, "community man cave" <-- most hackspaces are here, first hackbase experiments
    3 = 500/1500 m2 = 2nd gen hacklab: raw materials+machines <-- we are here (Electrolab, Attraktor, "fablabs", ...)
    4 = 5k/15k m2 = manufacturing, hackbases with bought land, "hacker lifestyles" (100 people) <-- next-gen Electrolab, CHT2
    5 = 50k/150k m2 (10ha) = town level (1000 people) <-- size of hacker camps
Upcoming, see:

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// this is where I am left with editing, first pass, at 2015-09-01

PROJECT / PATTERN: Mobility protocol:
    how do we DROP OUT of spaces
    how do DIFFERENT space "send people between each other"
and also:
    how do you "replicate your journey"


(wrote this with vesna)

PATTERN: Have a common goal
form problem well enough = it will work
    "but a society is too complex"
    "you couldn't do it"
    no! we did airflight!

IDEA/PROJECT: FOR LIFESTYLES ("implementations")
"all desperatly need this"

(agility debate)

David's "Scepticism of existing solutions"
A futuristic perspective:
    "if it survives for long, it's automatically not good enough"
    * all existing infrastructure is not good enough
    * looking for something that died in the past
    * ... and fixing, iteratively, the reasons so it doesn't die this time
Hackbases are not only "about" technology - hackbases *are* a technology (yet to be fully developed)

We need a listing of existing solutions, of "agility":
    * population
    * size
    * "around for a long time"

PATTERN: Constraints/Scarcity ("Reasons not to"):
kobudo: (
    * "jelle can only do it in 4 cities"
    * i want to do high-tech engineering with really smart people
    * we can outengineer it quite easily
    * "if those are met i'm happily going to work"

PATTERN: "antifragility"
<jelle <matt
"You want hard failure for small localities"

"have all the states in a state machine"
"TRAILS" of moving between bases (for individual)
... state machines for living systems

( closing )

        * going through notes + verify
        * what's next with what we want to do
        * how to follow this development -> keep mutual attention

( Noted down by )

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